Interviews

You Forgot to Invite Me

Orange County, May 3--During the 1960‘and early 1970’s, many young people grew concerned about the nation’s future and became active in social causes. The counterculture movement attempted to break away from traditional society. Some people embraced new spiritual movements and religions. While the counterculture movement did not last long, it did have a lasting impact on society. Mainstream society gradually accepted some aspects of the counterculture, such as its fashion, music and listening more closely to new ideology. Bill French was just embarking on his own adventure and discovery on being a husband and new father. Being an IRS agent in Orange County, California had Bill a relatively mainstream view of the times. Yet his unique openminded Oregonian upbringing gave him a different conservative/liberal perspective to this article. I met in his home for this interview.

Avery- “Thank you Grandpa Bill for meeting with me for this interview. I have some questions about your experiences, opinions and recollections from your life during the 1960’s and early 1970’s.”

Bill- “Sure Avery, that was an extraordinary time with a lot of changes in the world.”

Avery- “What do you remember about the Vietnam war?”

Bill- “ What I remember is that I was opposed to the war. War is always a bad idea. There is never any purpose to it. We wanted to get out of it but we just didn’t. We just could not get out of it.”

Avery-”Did you have any friends or relatives that were in the war or died in Vietnam?”

Bill-” None. Most of my friends were my age or older and we already had served in WWII or the Korean was so we were not drafted. I did not have any family members that were in the military.”

Avery- “Did the Civil Rights affect your life in any way?”

Bill- “ Yes, I was in the Navy at the time on a ship half around the world when Little Rock, Arkansas happened and the colored people wanted to attend school with the white kids. That prejudice was offensive to me.”

Avery-”Did you participate in any protests?”

Bill- ”No, but I watched it on T.V. It was on the news cast and papers. Even when I was on the other side of the U.S. I heard Martin Luther Kings, I Have a Dream speech.”

Avery-”Were you or your family for or against the Civil Rights Movement?”

Bill- “For it. We were not a prejudice people. Even though Oregon was not a very diverse community, mostly caucasian, we were not prejudice. You have to be taught prejudice you are not born with it. The only people I saw at the University of Oregon that weren’t white were the exchange students. I married a Japanese woman who was second generation American. We just got out of a war with the Japanese not too long ago but that didn’t matter. I guess this was my own statement of civil rights.”

Avery- “Did you vote for JFK?”

Bill- “ Even though I was a Republican at the time I did vote for JFK.”

Avery-” What made you vote for him and not Nixon the Republican candidate?’

Bill-” He was wonderful. He had an attractive wife and two young kids that were also attractive, really cute. He had great plans. After he was tragically killed. I thought it was wonderful that Johnson carried out Kennedy’s plans. I respected him for that.”

Avery-” Did you vote for Nixon when he ran again?’

Bill- “No.”

Avery- “ What was your opinion on Nixon and his presidency ?”

Bill-” I just remember him saying,”I am not a thief.” and giving the peace sign. The Watergate scandal too. He kept saying he had no knowledge at all. T here was a cover up of the tapes. He had recording devises in the oval office and the other White House offices. He kept denying it until the Judiciary Committee made him give them the tapes. There was a long 23or 27 minuets of blank tape. His secretary took the blame for it though. She said she pushed the wrong button and erased it on accident.”

Avery- “ Did the Watergate Scandal affect your view on the government and the presidency?”

Bill- “ Yes, I was more skeptical of the government and all politicians. and I hasn’t gotten much better. We are still in bad shape in this country.”

Avery-” Well let’s talk about something lighter. What did you think of the music at this time?

Bill-” I really liked it. The Beatles were really popular around 1963. I saw them on the Ed Sullivan show. I thought it was funny to see the girls scream and they knew all the words of the songs. At the time Bing Crosby was still big and this was a big change in music. They are still playing their songs today.”

Avery- “ Did you wear any of the clothes or participate in any fads or trends at the time?”

Bill-” No I did not participate in any of those wild clothes. I just remember them being strange looking and exaggerated. Wild styles like Sonny and Cher. The bell bottoms were very wide. The closest thing I wore to that was when I was in the Navy. The sailor uniform had bell bottoms. The bell bottoms were for emergencies. If you were thrown off the ship you could pull off the pants and fill the legs with air. Then you would tie them up and use them as a flotation device. You would save your energy in the water.”

Avery “ Thank you Grandpa Bill for this interview. I really learned a lot.”

Bill “ I am glad Avery, thank you for reminding me about some interesting times in my life. Memories are all we have at the end of the day.”

In the time that was spent doing this interview I realized that mainstream Americans were not all invited to the same party. If they were young parents they were busy trying to make a living and participating in their own lives. They seemed to acknowledge the changes around them and often felt the sorrows and celebrations that the country was feeling but in a more removed and spectator fashion. Bill French was a leader in his thinking and ways but in a more quiet manner that represented a majority of young men of this age. I am thankful for the time I spent with him and I know I learned a lot about him and hopefully a little more about myself.

Life in the 60's

For my father who was born in the 50's, he can remember encounters that happened in the 60's and 70's when many different cultural changes were happening. There were civil rights movements, the Vietnam War and the Watergate scandal. There were also many different views on the presidents we had and the changes they made. In an interview with my father i asked him a few questions about this period of time.


Paige: “What is the first thing that pops into your head when I say 1960?”

Peter: “Catholic School, nuns , baseball , and black and white TV , green 1963 Chevy impala and vacations in the Redwoods for a few. Clarks Drug Store, Kessge’s Ice Cream Counter and Bens Market.”

Paige: “Do you remember anything that went on during the Vietnam War?”

Peter: “Yes”

Peter: “The first thing I remember is that they had a draft , which mean if they asked you you had to go in the Armed Forces , you did not have a choice. No one really thought too much about it until you had to register. You had to go to a government office and give them your information and they would give you a Draft number. Fortunately for me I registered but they stop the draft right before my age group would have been called up.

As for the war itself, I remember that during the late 60’s and early 70’s the war was pretty much all you saw on the news unless there was some domestic issue happening like a war protest. There were a lot of people that did not agree with being at war in Vietnam and they’d protest in the streets. At that time the government would really be hard on them and at time open fire on them… I remember at Ohio State University the students were protesting and several students were killed by the police. Even some of the Hollywood movie star went out on the limb and protested, like Jane Fondo actually going to Vietnam and taking photos with the North Vietnamese. It was a very difficult time for the United States. The war it seemed to get worse toward the end of the 60’s with more bombing and casualties. What I remember is they use to spray the jungles in Vietnam with a chemical that would almost instantly kill the trees and bushes so they could see the enemy hiding. Unfortunately it was Agent Orange that had long term negative health effects on our own troops. Also they would show us using bombers to drop an enormous amount of bombs on the jungles hoping to hit the enemy camps.

In the end, we simply withdrew our troops. No one actually declared victory.

I also remember that the troops that returned from the war were not treated well by anyone. Seemed like the government would love to send them over there then everyone would abandon them when they returned. A lot of the soldiers came back addicted to all sorts of drugs that they found over there.”

Paige: “Did you have any friends that were drafted into the war?”

Peter: “I had friends who had brothers that either joined or were drafted. They all went to Vietnam and all came home in one piece with the exception of our neighbor’s daughter’s boyfriend. This guy would always joke how he would join the marines and one day he did. Sadly to say after being in Vietnam for a very short time he stepped on a land mine and was severely injured… he lost both his arms and legs….. I did see him after that.”

Paige: “Did you see these friends after? Were they different?”

Peter: “As I mentioned I didn’t have any direct friends that went to Vietnam, only their brothers.. I did see them; they surfed a lot and could drive, so we tagged along. They weren’t much different that when they left with the exception of one that seemed a bit spacey…. I think possibly he may have had a bad experience or been exposed to something that affected him.”

Paige: “Did you see things on TV or hear things on the radio about the war?”

Peter: “Yes all the time… this was the first “TV” war so every day on the news you’d see something. It wasn’t like reporting today where it was live, but films that were shipped back or broadcast from a station abroad. They would always show bombs going off and people getting killed.. I remember one of an execution of a Vietnamese man by his enemy and one of a small girl running from a bombing. Other than TV there were a lot of print magazines that would show pictures of the destruction and try to make sense of it all.”

Paige: “Do you remember anything about the woman’s civil rights movement?”

Peter: “Not really much…. I knew it was going on but did not really know the impact it would have or the importance of it at the time, so I did not pay attention.”

Paige: “Do you remember anything about black civil rights movement?”

Peter: “Not really … I was probably too young to grasp the impact of it…. If I think hard I remember a few riots I saw on TV and a lot of controversy about it.”

Paige: “What was our image of the south?”

Peter: “At the time I think the nation’s image with the KKK and other radical groups.”

Paige: “Was there any segregation where you lived?”

Peter: “Segregation was pretty much everywhere in the 60’s and early 70’s … you rarely saw minorities unless you traveled to the other areas of town , unless it was a signer you never saw a minority on TV.”

Paige: “What is your view on JFK?”

Peter: “At the time , the only opinion I had was what I heard from my family and coming from a group of Republicans they did not like him at all… in retrospect he seems like a well-connected , motivated , young guy that did his best.”

Paige: “Do you remember what you were doing when you found out about his assignation?”

Peter: “Yes, sitting in the third grade near the back of the class when the teacher came in a told us. She was of course crying and after that on that day I don’t remember much.”

Paige: “Do you remember anything about LBJ?”

Peter: “Yes, my first recollection of LBJ was he was being sworn in as president after the assassination. I do not think I know he existed prior to that. After that I remember him to be a guy with a Texas accent that seemed to struggle with the Vietnam War and was blamed for a lot of things we did wrong over there.”

Paige: “Did any of his reforms help you or your family?”

Peter: “I don’t think so… I don’t remember what reforms he enacted that might have helped us. We were pretty my middle class Americans living in the suburbs of Los Angeles.”

Paige: “What do you remember about Nixon?”

Peter: “A bit… I was in the 8^th grade when he was elected and we did a large constitutional report which included a lot about the elections. I still have a copy of it if you’d like to review it. One thing I remember is that he was the president in the White house when we finally left Vietnam and there were a lot of speeches and such from him at the time. He always seemed very serious on TV. I also remember he was caught up in a very large property with the breaking to the Watergate Hotel and was impeached because of the scandal.”

Paige: “Do you remember anything about the Watergate scandal?”

Peter: “Not a lot of detail, but I remember that is all that anyone talked about on TV at the time. I think it was hard to figure out exactly what was going on when you’re in High School and something like this is going on. I thing even most of new casters were a bit confused trying to get a grasp on what actually happened. There were a lot of hearing and people on both sides ha strong opinions on the matter.. In the end Nixon was out and Ford took over. Our neighbor, Bill Mardian, was the son of Robert Charles Mardian (October 23, 1923 – July 17, 2006) who was a United States Republican party official who served in the administration of Richard Nixon, but was embroiled in the Watergate scandal as one of the Watergate Seven who were indicted by a grand jury for campaign violations. He was convicted but the conviction was overturned.”

Paige: “Did your family like Nixon?”

Peter: “Yes, my Mom and Dad were Republicans, as was most of my Family, so they really liked Nixon and though he got a raw deal with the Watergate scandal.”

Interview

Interviewee, Michael Dorsey, born in 1949 recollects the intriguing era of the 1960’s and early 1970’s.

1.Brooke: “ What pops into your head when I say 1960’s?

Michael: “The Beatles. I just started high school, it was a very exciting time’. Music was a major part of the 1960’s.”

2. Brooke:“ On another note, do you remember Vietnam?”

Michael: “Yes, clearly. I just started attending UCLA when the major drafting started to take place.”

Brooke: “How did the drafts work exactly?”

Michael: “ The draft was based on the date of your birthday. For instance, the day March 20^th was picked, anyone with that birthday was first priority to be drafted.”

Brooke: “Were you drafted?’

Michael: “Yes. Although, I was a full time college student I did not have to go to Vietnam. By the time I was out of college, the war was over.”

3. Brooke: “Did you have any friends that fought in the Vietnam War?”

Michael: “Yes, I had several. Two of my good friends were killed.”

4. Brooke: “Out of your friends that came back, did they change at all?”

Michael: “The ones that came back, I wasn’t too close with. But, they were pretty upset. They couldn’t talk about the war; they questioned why they were even there. In my opinion, the Vietnam War was a war that shouldn’t have even happened. It was a huge mistake.”

5. Brooke: “What did you think of the South during this time period?”

Michael: “When I think of the south, I think of Martin Luther King Jr. He did amazing things. Blacks were discriminated against, oppressed, and treated horribly. The civil rights movements were needed, and Martin Luther King helped them get the rights they deserved.”

Brooke: “ Do you remember Malcolm X?”

Michael: “ Yes, however, I was more of a fan of Martin Luther King Jr.”

Brooke: “Why?”

Michael: “Malcolm X had more of a ‘militant’ style, more violent in other words. He treated violence with violence, unlike Martin Luther King who believed in non-violent protests and such. Malcolm X was not too popular, not well accepted.

6.Brooke: “ Do you remember any black civil rights movements?”

Michael: “ Yes, I remember the marches down Selma, Alabama. I was eleven or so, I had a minimal understanding of what was going on, but didn’t know what to think.”

7. Brooke: “ Did you like John F. Kennedy?”

Michael: “Yes. I believe he was thirty-five when he became President, youngest President yet. I was in seventh or eighth grade, I believe, and I remember my parents (who were republicans) being not too fond of John F. Kennedy, but I believed JFK would do great things as president.”

8.Brooke: “What were you doing when you heard about John F Kennedy’s assassination?”

Michael: “ I was sitting in my freshman English Class when a school announcement went on over the loud speaker, ‘we have a sad announcement,  the President has just been shot.’ The class broke out in chaos. People thought the President of the school was shot, but really John F. Kennedy had been assassinated.

9. Brooke:” Was there any segregation where you lived?”

Michael: “No. There was no forced segregation either. No African Americans were present in my neighborhood, if I recall.”

10. Brooke: “What do you remember about Nixon?”

Michael: “He was a good statesman, politician, and overall good president for most of his career.

Brooke: “What about Watergate, though?”

Michael: “Watergate was an unfortunate event, in which, his whole presidency should not be judged upon.”

11. Brooke: “ Do you remember Watergate?”

Michael: “Watergate was a corporate office across from the capitol. Nixon gave permission for people to break into Watergate and get the democrat party’s confidential information. It eventually caught back up to Nixon, and he had no choice but to resign. I still remember watching him on the television telling society he had officially resigned.”

Interview with Phil Harvey
My dad, Phil Harvey, was born in 1954 and has an impressive recollection of what was happening during the 1960's and 1970's. Here, he shares his view of the time...

1. Jilian: What do you remember about the Vietnam War?


Phil: "Well I remember that the Vietnam War was the first televised war ever. Before then the media was never able to broadcast the way that they were during this time. We were there protecting the South Vietnamese from the (Communist) North Vietnamese. It was not our war to fight, we were there just to deter the spread of communism. We did not need to be there. At best, we were there helping the South Vietnamese. This was also the first war where there were "draft dodgers", people moving to canada to escape being drafted.
*Jilian's mom adds in: "My dad was working for an aerospace company at the time and he quit the job because he refused to be working for a business that was making products for the war

2. Jilian: "Did you have any friends get drafted?"


Phil: "I never had any close friends get drafted. I was given a draft number, I was never drafted though because by the time I got the draft number, the war was winding down."

3. Jilian: "What was society like during the war?"


Phil: "There was a strong polarization between the different generations of people. Older people supported "protecting their freedoms" and the spread of communism, where younger people strongly resented the war.

4. Jilian: "What do you remember about the Civil Rights Movement?"


Phil: "What I remember most is MLK Jr. and I vividly remember the day that he died, April 4, 1968. My Mom died on the same day. I also remember the KKK burning down black people's homes and burning them as well. I remember the 1968 Olympics where John Carlos and Tom Smith stood on the Olympic podium wearing black gloves and holding up fists for black power.

5. Jilian: "Do you remember ever going anywhere that was still segregated?"


Phil: Now that I'm thinking about it, I went to school in North Carolina for second and third grade, and I don't remember a single black person in the whole school. This is the first time that I've realized that, wow. Something else that I remember from that time was we would have drills at that school, similar to fire drills that you have now, where we would all go to a fallout shelter. I didn't understand it at the time, but they did this because of threats from Cuba. This eventually led to the Bay of Pigs Invasion. This time was also when the shift from referring to blacks went from "Negroes" to "African Americans"

6. Jilian: "What do you remember about JFK?"


Phil: "Well I remember that he ran against Nixon who was a Republican. I remember that Johnson came into office when he was assassinated. The whole thing is still a mystery, we don't really know for sure how he was killed and who was involved.

7. Jilian: "Do you remember the day he was killed?"


Phil: "Yes, I remember very clearly. I was in 4th grade in Mrs. Ferguson's class. She started crying and the principal came in and got her and told the class what had happened. I remember just sitting there in class for the rest of the school day. I also remember going home that night and watching everything on TV.

8. Jilian: "What do you remember about Nixon?"


Phil: "Nixon was a bad dude... he was elected in 68 and he ran against Humphrey. He was underhanded and he was not an honest man. He did open the west to China, where before this China was off limits.

9. Jilian: "What do you remember of Watergate?"


Phil: "Republicans broke into the Democratic office at the watergate hotel office buildings and stole information that was not theirs, just to reassure that Nixon would be reelected. They were caught and then they destroyed audio tapes that had evidence on it. Nixon resigned in 1974 because he knew otherwise he would be impeached.

10. Jilian: "Anything else that stands out to you from the 60's to the 70's?"


Phil: "I remember that I had no sense of what war was really like at all until I saw the movie "Deer Hunter". This movie is absolutely terrible, but it is the most realistic war movie out there I think. You would never watch this movie for you own enjoyment... I also remember John Glenn orbiting the earth, that was a big deal."


Interview with Ethel Weston
Ethel Weston is the great aunt of Jilian Harvey, and is very old so she hardly remembers the time, but this is what she was able to recall...

1. Jilian: "What do you remember of the Vietnam War?"


Et: "I remember that I was living in California at the time working as a nurse. We did not need to go to this war, it wasn't our place to get involved. It shouldn't have happened and it is very sad how many men died."

2. Jilian: "What do you remember of the Civil Rights Movement?"


Et: " There were hippies... I don't know, I never got involved. When you're working and married, worrying about this wasn't a priority of mine."

3. Jilian: "What do you remember about JFK and Nixon/Watergate?"


Et: "JFK was a good president. It was a very sad day when he died. I was working in Illinois at the time and I remember everyone sitting in disbelief. I don't have anything to say about Nixon or Watergate, I have never been very involved in politics.

4. Jilian: "Do you have any other memories from this time?"


Et: "Well my husband fought in the Korean war for fifteen months. When he came home he never wanted to talk about the war at all. He said that he had picked up enough dead bodies to make him hate any war. We never supported any war. I know that war can really mess up the soldiers when they come home, so I'm sure it was the same for the Vietnam War. I hate war."